So, this whole War Dec between the Late Nite Alliance and Ushra’Khan needs some commentary and analysis, I believe, from the perspective of someone who is both an RPer, a founder of the Late Nite fleets (but not in the current Late Nite Alliance), and a long time associate of Ushra’Khan.
Firstly, everyone involved needs to chillax. Mostly UK, but also LNA. Because if it continues it will get in the way of general PvP within the Minnie Militia. Each side needs to understand better the motivations and goals of the other side and be OK with them, so we can get back to good ole FW-style low sec PvP and PvE.
Now, I’ve been a role player ever since I began Eve. My whole corp are RPers. But, we are an RP corp heavily focused on serious PvP. I’d say the same thing about the various corps Shalee Lianne has belonged to—she is a lot like me, focused on PvP but always with an RP foundation. It’s why my corp joined Faction War—it was a perfect environment for us to both PvP and RP.
Now, to understand Late Nite Alliance. Oddly enough, I think they are both amused and at the same time respect the RP aspect of HUANG pilots. Firstly, we don’t RP on comms—frankly, that would be silly—and we aren’t idiots. We were PvPers before most of Late Nite were, and we were among the first FCs of the Late Nite fleets. Now I’d say most Late Niters have grown way beyond us HUANG guys, as we don’t get much pod time generally, but I think that fundamental respect remains. Also, we are both thick skinned and competent. And generally a-political.
Late Niters are raucous, irreverent, often drunken and always jibing group of guys and gals. Comms can be loud and confusing. A pilot new to our comms described last night his experience, which I will now liberally paraphrase:
Late Nite comms are full of crap and they sound like a totally disorganized bunch of jerks. But the moment a combat situation arises it snaps tight as a drum, and everyone knows what to do, and they get it done and win their fights…
It made me contemplate why I continue to fly with Late Nite. Some of the guys commented I put up with them only because they are great PvPers, as I’m generally not one of the jerks. This is only partially true. I have a very high tolerance of arrogant bastards (if they’ve earned the right to be arrogant bastards), and a very low level for blow-hards and incompetents. I don’t care if people make mistakes, so long as they own up to them and learn from them.
Late Niters are elitists only in that they expect people to learn fast and be thick skinned. There are currently plenty of noobs within Late Nite. Characters actually only a month old. But they have no problem learning how to fly the Late Nite way—disorganized until the very moment of combat, then following whoever happens to be calling primaries and other combat commands at the moment.
Late Niters are not actually bullies; they don’t really get off on pushing around weaklings. They are arrogant bastards who want to blow ships up, and who happen to be very good at that. Tears are not required and not the reason for pew-pew (although in some cases an enjoyable bonus).
Late Niters will look for any excuse to find more things to shoot. They prefer above all to shoot people who they think haven’t earned their respect, hence the Ushra’Khan war dec.
Now, the war dec was made for a number of reasons:
- Late Nite likes to shoot anything they can
- Late Niters generally look down upon RPers they consider to be all bark and no bite, and wanted to make that point
- A noob mistake made by a UK pilot provided an convenient excuse to launch a war they had every intention of letting lapse soon
Are these good reasons? You need to understand that Late Nite treats PvP as a very entertaining game where the primary goal is to blow stuff up and not get blown up as much as possible. So they love war decs. It’s why they war dec’ed Eve Uni.
Is it how I treat PvP? No, though TBH it’s pretty easy to justify pretty open ROE when operating in a hot war zone. Any neutral combat ship loitering on gates or in plexes should be considered a potential enemy.
Now, from the Ushra’Kahn point of view. They have a serious beef with Late Nite, and I think they’re certainly justified from their perspective:
- Late Nite are a bunch of bullies. Well, from the UK perspective it seems this way—Late Niters are rude, uncouth, and fire on fellow TLF pilots with a very low threshold of provocation. However, they only fire if provoked. And in this case, even by UK’s admission they were provoked (if only barely).
- Late Niters are traitors to the Minmatar cause. Well, if they choose to fire on neutrals and war dec fellow militia alliances and corps that give them cause, does that make them traitors? Yes, in the strictest sense. But I would argue that in the larger picture they are not. Like them or not, they are the most effective anti-Amarr force ever assembled.
- Late Niter are blow hards that need to be put in their place and taught a lesson. Yeah, as I’ll be the first to admit, they are an unruly and impolite bunch. And like to chest thump. But have they earned that right? I think so, even if I’d rather that they didn’t crow so loudly about their awesomeness (and I will plead guilty to that as well). I think the pride Late Nite has in its accomplishments are not hot air. They really are among the best PvPers in Eve, at least by the statistics.
Does that justify their attitude? No, it doesn’t. I wish they didn’t quite revel so much in their own dickishness. But that doesn’t change the fact that I choose to fly with them, because after all they kick ass.
Now, LNA had every intention of ending the war soon, but I think that attitude has changed, with UK’s rather successful smear campaign against LNA among the general militia. Bahamut has taken this branding of being traitors and enemies to the general militia very personally (as would I, to be honest) and now has no intention of ending the war any time soon.
UK, on the other hand, has recruited corps and alliances outside of the Militia to fight against Late Nite. I was in pod last night when a bunch of pirate BCs and cruisers landed on a gate in Auga. On my normal overview I don’t have militia shown, so I didn’t realize a swarm of UK ships were accompanying the pirates. I locked up a red Blackbird, but since I was on comms with Late Nite, they told me the fleet was with UK, so I only pointed the Blackbird.
Now, I was an anti-pirate years before I was a Minmatar militiaman. When I was convo’ed by who I can only assume was the UK FC to unlock the BB, I was really really tempted to ignore him and blow that BB to hell. But I didn’t, mainly because it would probably mean all those UK guys would shoot me, and then die in fire to a nearby LNA fleet (some died later anyways).
UK bringing non-aligned pirates into the warzone as allies I find as distasteful as LNA shooting UK.
Now, what to do? Late Nite corps had a similar falling out with Star Fraction about two years ago. Now we’re all buddies. Pride needs to be swallowed on both sides and this war needs to end. Why? Because:
- For Late Niters, this will eventually start to interfere with the ability to conduct normal patrols for targets and the opportunities to blow stuff up. I guarantee it. The drama may be entertaining now, but will soon be a distraction from the primary goal of regular and largely unrestricted low sec pew-pew. Get over your awesomeness and irritation and just drop the dec.
- For Ushra’Khan, you need to accept that some of your allies are going to be dicks and get a thicker skin, and also accept that these dicks are really, really good at blowing up Amarr. They are in fact the best at blowing up Amarr. They will also be really good at blowing you up, which needs to stop if you really have the good of the Militia and Republic as your primary goal, and not your own egos.
There’s just too much ego here. It stinks. We need to end this confusion of intra-militia cock-of-the-walk strutting and get back to shooting everyone else who isn’t in militia. So, for the sake of carefree PvP AND the good of the Republic, we need at least a detente between the aggrieved parties. You don’t need to like each other (you can even go on despising each other, for all I care). But just stop shooting each other. It interferes with the mechanisms of FW PvP and RP and just needs to end.